WEBVTT

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<v 0>Welcome to the AJP podcast,</v>

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a podcast for pharmacists by pharmacists where we discuss current events,

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relevant topics, and emerging issues. I'm your host, Carlene McMaugh,

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and together with the AJP,

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I'm bringing you the opinions and expertise of different pharmacists to discuss

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their views and insights on topics relevant to pharmacists.

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Please like and rate each episode and subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss

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an episode.

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<v 1>I thought I might start by asking you to introduce yourself, if that's okay?</v>

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<v 2>Okay. Well good morning.</v>

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My name is Bruce Annabel and I'm a chartered accountant by

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qualification,

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but I've been working with pharmacies since about

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1986, 1987 and 30 odd years

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ago.

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I devoted my whole professional career to working with pharmacy owners

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and

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trying to work with individual pharmacists as well

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to help them improve their businesses.

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And you can't have a quality

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service in a medicine sense unless you have a quality business,

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so they go together. So that's what I do.

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I was a founding partner of the what is now called Picture

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Pharmacy Services, a division of picture partners in Brisbane.

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I founded the pharmacy services division in the late 1980s

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and

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I sold out of that division about 16 years ago,

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and I now practice as a consultant, advisor, writer,

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presenter,

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member of a couple of boards and general pain in the neck around the

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industry. But you can probably delete that bit if you like.

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But yeah, I'm passionate about pharmacy

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and having with my various conditions,

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been a customer of pharmacy since I could walk.

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I truly believe in the people in the white coat and what they can do for people

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like me and others.

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And I see in the industry and the profession a massive,

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massive opportunity, which I've seen for many years.

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And I'd like to think this community pharmacy agreement or set of

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agreements will actually finally help facilitate that.

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And it's good to be a part of what's going on at the moment.

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But my other,

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I guess qualification is I'm an associate member of the pharmaceutical society,

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which is a privilege for me and I enjoy it.

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So that's me.

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<v 1>Thank you.</v>

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I wanted to ask what your thoughts were about the 8CPA agreement.

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I understand that you've well versed in the 8CPA agreement,

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so please share your insights.

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<v 2>Well, the 8CPA agreement,</v>

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and I guess you're predominantly talking about the agreement that the guild

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negotiated with the federal government

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is unequivocally a very successful

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negotiation and a very good outcome

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for the industry.

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It provides sustainability for the industry, at least for the next five years.

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The remuneration platform for dispensing and

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the medicine related services that are contained within that agreement are very

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strong. So pharmacy I think has done well.

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I think the Guild has done well and the negotiating team headed up by Anthony

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Tassone backed up by a number of people who assisted

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and they achieved a very good outcome,

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particularly when you think about where it all started from,

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which was rather rocky,

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but it finished up being in a very good

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situation for pharmacy.

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And I think there are a number of elements to it,

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one of which is the recognition of the need

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to provide some financial compensation for the impact of 60

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day dispensing on pharmacy viability.
If it had been left the way it

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was,

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there would've been significant angst and stress and

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also I would say financial failures within community pharmacy,

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which had the potential to impact on the distribution

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reliability for the PBS.

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But I think when you stand back from it a little bit,

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we're seeing the wholesalers will have their own agreement for the second

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time, and we don't have the details of that as yet.

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I understand they're negotiating around the CSO,

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but I dunno whether there's anything else going on.

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So hopefully we'll see the result of that very shortly.

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But also the PSA for the first time and the groundbreaking achievement

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has managed to achieve their own services documents. Now,

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those services don't include things like deas and meds checks and so on,

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which are still within the 8CPA medicine

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related supply agreement negotiated by the guild.

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So the areas that the PSA will be looking into are things like NIP VIP

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and also some of the other programs,

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which used to be part of the Standard Guild government agreement.

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So pharmacy's not losing any services at all.

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And the second agreement, which the guild, sorry,

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which the PSA has negotiated with the government is the new and

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expanded agreement.

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And the new and expanded services agreement potentially offers

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significant improvements to the professional service opportunities

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and a very strong role for community pharmacy in the broader health

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spectrum.

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And there is a development plan over a number of years for that to be

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negotiated,

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modeled and then rolled out towards the end of the current five year agreement.

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So there are a lot of elements in that which I think could

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assist with the evolution of the industry or the profession.

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And when you look outside that agreement and you look

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outside the guild government agreement for supply and

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related medicine programs,

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there's about 1.4 billion or a little bit more of

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services that are funded outside these agreements and

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they're funded by the federal government and they are quite

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significant. And on top of that,

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you have the state-based scope of practice initiatives as well.

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So there is even presently no shortage of opportunities

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for community pharmacists to expand their professional

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areas and also for community pharmacies to embrace

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them.

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So I think if you take a broader look at this as

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well as a narrow look,

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I think overall this has been a very,

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very successful outcome and negotiated outcome for community

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pharmacy and pharmacists.

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<v 1>So you've mentioned the PSA strategic agreement and extra money for</v>

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medical related services,

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you are talking about increased scope of practice, thinking about prescribing.

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Is that kind of some of the services you're expecting to see potentially?

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<v 2>I suspect so.</v>

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And I think part of it is also the opioid dependence

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program.

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Another one will be the pharmacist in aged care facilities and

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how that's going to work and how that will be serviced.

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And I suspect there'll be an opportunity there for community pharmacies as well

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as individual pharmacists and also pharmacists and GP

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practices I should think because the PSA has been very strong and very

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consistent on that for a long time.

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So I think there's plenty of potential in that strategic agreement.

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So we'll, a little bit of an unknown at the moment.

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<v 1>I'd say the impact of 60 day dispensing and some of the forecasts</v>

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that you've met,

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when you're looking at some of the reimbursement models that have come out of

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8CPA, do you think there imbalance? Do you think that,

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yeah, I guess how do they offset most of the losses from 60 day dispensing?

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<v 2>The answer to that, it depends on the individual pharmacy,</v>

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but if you take a fairly broad view,

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and I'll look at the numbers that I've worked out,

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it all depends on the uptake rate.

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And the uptake rate to date is something like 15%

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and I'm seeing some as low as 10% or even below that.

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The uptake rate has so far been quite modest,

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and that doesn't appear to have been very heavily driven by the medical

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sector or by consumers for that matter.

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There are variations depending on whether you're in a provincial area or low

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socioeconomic area or whatever. So

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I think when you look at the numbers of the reimbursement,

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there are two elements to it. One is the additional AHI,

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which will be $4 .79 from the 1st of July,

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and that is indexed each year.

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And that will apply to scripts that are dispensed as 60 day.

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And then there's an additional compensation which is quite

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significant and I'll explain why in a minute.

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But that is 78 cents per

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PBS and RPBS government subsidized prescription

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will be paid to pharmacies.

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So $4 79 for the 60 day scripts dispensed and

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78 cents for all PBS and RPBS

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prescriptions, whether they're 60 day or 30 day.

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So I think that's a real coup, but when you look at the structure of it,

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there's in total 2.111 billion

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being applied over the five year term

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to fund compensation for 60 day.

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Now,

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if the 60 day dispensing uptake gets to something like

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60%,

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I don't think that compensation will be enough to cover the losses.

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However,

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who knows what negotiation could occur if it does actually get to that.

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But in the meantime,

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at a 16% or lower or even up to 20% or

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more,

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pharmacies will be receiving more compensation than what they will lose.

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It's according to my numbers,

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when you get to about a 35% uptake rate,

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pharmacy gets to a breakeven point.

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So that's roughly more than double the uptake rate experience that

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the experience that we're seeing at the moment.

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But the uptake rate obviously is pharmacy specific and

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also the drugs that pharmacies dispense a whole range of variables in it.

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One of the other factors here,

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which is important to understand is the government has agreed to

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pay as part of the 2.11 billion of compensation

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backpay for 60 day scripts dispensed from the

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1st of April to the end of June this year. So in other words,

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the current quarter,

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so the 2.1 billion actually applies to five

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years plus one quarter,

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and that reimbursement will be $4

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79 for 60 day scripts dispensed. In other words,

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at the A HI from the 1st of July,

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not the current A HI. So that's a positive.

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And also the 78 cents will apply to all PBS and RPBS

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scripts dispensed during that quarter.

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So when you work the numbers out, given the low uptake rate,

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pharmacy can expect to get a very nice dividend for that period.

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I understand that this money will be paid somewhere towards the end of September

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or maybe October. Haven't had that confirmed as yet,

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but it's something like that.

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So that will help pharmacy financials look pretty strong

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for the year into 30 June 24.

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I think achieving compensation for 60 day

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dispensing has been a significant achievement.

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If you look at New Zealand where they have 60 day and 90 day dispensing

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for a lot of drugs, there's been no compensation.

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And I think that's fairly consistent with other jurisdictions from what I

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understand. So I think securing that,

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even though it's probably not going to go a whole hog,

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if uptake goes to say 60%,

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it's a significant win to be able to achieve that.

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<v 1>I was going to ask you about, which you've mentioned some of it,</v>

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the potential for the eight CPA and how pharmacies can maximize their

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returns utilizing the eight CPA agreement.

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<v 2>Well,</v>

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continuing on as normal pharmacy will get uplifts in

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the rate prepared a HI and dispense fees and they get pick

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up and the extemporaneous as well,

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the DD fees will go up and also

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the safety net recording fee will go up.

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So I think in terms of supply,

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community pharmacy will automatically get all those advantages.

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If you look at the increase to the A HI and dispense

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fee just by themselves,

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the CPI uplift that we had on the 1st of July last year,

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which was 89 cents,

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there's another 47 cents combined for those two,

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which will come into effect on the 1st of July. That's a dollar 36.

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And when you work out the numbers and you multiply dollar 36 by the PBS and

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RPBS prescriptions,

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that's quite a significant amount. And also provided you're not a discounter,

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you also get the advantage of that in the below patient copay area

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as well.
So

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those amounts will go a fair way and maybe for some,

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not all the way to covering the increased in overheads that pharmacy has endured

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in recent years.

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So I think that's a significant thing to recognize and

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amounts like that.

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And general CPI increases to other fees can get lost

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in the maze of pharmacy day to day and can get taken for

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granted. But I think CPI increases significant,

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and I think pharmacy will do very well purely from that.

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And of course the 60 day dispensing.

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I think the other one is the pharmacy programs.

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There's $1.3 billion which has been allocated to the

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services programs that are within the Guild government agreement.

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And that's over a five year period.

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I think there's about 227 million which has been earmarked for the current year.

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So the 1.3 billion obviously flags a

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room for growth.

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<v 1>So I wanted to ask you,</v>

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so having read all of the finer details of the eight CPA,

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is there anything that people might have missed or anything else you wanted

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to really highlight that people haven't seen as the greatest opportunity?

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<v 2>There's a couple of things to think about.</v>

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One is the services funding, which is in the eighth agreement,

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which we've already mentioned a couple of times.

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00:17:42.500 --> 00:17:45.380
So things like DAAs and meds checks,

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DAA is a fairly type of program, but it's very beneficial.

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We're talking about community patient VAs,

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and it's a great way to help patients improve their compliance

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00:17:59.910 --> 00:18:04.410
and adherence and reduce unnecessary trips to the doctor if they can get in to

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see one. And of course to hospital, but also for pharmacy,

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00:18:09.360 --> 00:18:14.160
it's a great way to look after the patients because they come back more

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regularly. And also the financial benefits are there,

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00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:21.210
which I've written about before in a JP.

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So I think just taking up these programs which are just sitting there,

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these are funded programs and the

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industry has provided these,

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and pharmacies can take these up and they're not

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that difficult to do.
So I call these programs the

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low hanging fruit, and every single pharmacy can do these things.

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So those who've struggled to do any of them,

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the best thing to do is to start with one or maybe two and work your way into

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it.

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The financial modeling that I've done with my clients and just

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purely looking at their KPIs, the pharmacies who do this,

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00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:13.080
the financial returns for running a professional service style of

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00:19:13.080 --> 00:19:17.580
pharmacy model with a lot of professional services and

283
00:19:18.930 --> 00:19:20.640
employing more pharmacists,

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00:19:21.060 --> 00:19:26.010
the financial benefits are significant and these pharmacies tend to

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00:19:26.010 --> 00:19:30.180
outperform the more traditional supply style pharmacies.

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00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:33.810
So the financial model has been proven.

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00:19:35.010 --> 00:19:38.880
So I think that's significant opportunity.

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00:19:38.880 --> 00:19:43.830
And in some instances you still come across the

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00:19:43.830 --> 00:19:48.570
occasional pharmacy that doesn't do meds checks or those who don't do

290
00:19:48.630 --> 00:19:52.920
very many DAAs and they wait for someone to recommend it,

291
00:19:52.950 --> 00:19:55.380
whereas the best thing to do is to talk to the patients.

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00:19:56.190 --> 00:20:00.840
And if you think they or the carer of a patient could benefit from one,

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00:20:00.840 --> 00:20:03.120
then it should be recommended.

294
00:20:03.120 --> 00:20:07.830
So I think just taking those things up by themselves represent a

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00:20:07.830 --> 00:20:09.240
significant opportunity.

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00:20:12.450 --> 00:20:16.620
<v 1>With the strategic agreement coming and with more of a</v>

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00:20:16.890 --> 00:20:18.930
focus and discussion on services.

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00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:24.150
I guess I was going to ask what mindset changes might

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00:20:24.150 --> 00:20:24.990
be useful?

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00:20:25.080 --> 00:20:29.940
Resource changes for pharmacists as well and opportunities for them might

301
00:20:29.940 --> 00:20:32.370
exist with this new strategic agreement as well?

302
00:20:34.020 --> 00:20:38.310
<v 2>Okay. Well, I guess you're talking about the practice model.</v>

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00:20:39.510 --> 00:20:44.490
Our pharmacy and the practice model does need to evolve,

304
00:20:45.300 --> 00:20:47.890
and there are a number of pharmacies who've already done this,

305
00:20:47.890 --> 00:20:52.780
and we see it year after year with the pharmacies of the year and

306
00:20:52.780 --> 00:20:56.530
often pharmacists of the year and the way that they operate.

307
00:20:58.030 --> 00:21:02.950
So I think seeing pharmacy these days is a retail

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00:21:02.950 --> 00:21:06.430
operation, which it used to be and it was successful at that.

309
00:21:07.270 --> 00:21:12.070
But a lot of the retail elements of pharmacy have been hijacked by

310
00:21:12.070 --> 00:21:15.910
hard discounters and also by supermarkets,

311
00:21:16.030 --> 00:21:19.150
discount department stores, and of course online.

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00:21:20.650 --> 00:21:25.600
So the way for pharmacy to compete in the marketplace and

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00:21:25.870 --> 00:21:30.310
also to have a financially sustainable model,

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00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:35.920
it's about operating in a different way. And that different way is, yes,

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00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:38.680
prescription dispensing is critically important,

316
00:21:38.710 --> 00:21:40.900
it's the foundation of pharmacy.

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00:21:41.950 --> 00:21:46.600
And a lot of pharmacies still operate in a way that is

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00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:51.490
simply about supply and reacting to requests for prescription

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00:21:51.490 --> 00:21:56.200
dispensing.
And I think if we can look at

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00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:58.870
the pharmacist's role,

321
00:21:59.350 --> 00:22:04.210
particularly given their qualification skill sets, and in many cases,

322
00:22:04.210 --> 00:22:05.620
particularly young pharmacists,

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00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:09.280
their own aspirations of what they want to do,

324
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:14.470
I think doing more than dispensing has become, I think to me,

325
00:22:14.470 --> 00:22:19.360
a clarion call for a reorganization of the

326
00:22:19.360 --> 00:22:23.530
practice model. So majority of my clients,

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00:22:23.980 --> 00:22:27.460
the dispensaries are run by technicians,

328
00:22:28.510 --> 00:22:32.440
well-trained, highly competent dispensary technicians.

329
00:22:33.100 --> 00:22:36.160
And the pharmacist role starts from checking the script and looking at

330
00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:39.940
interactions and patient history and then speaking to the patient,

331
00:22:40.840 --> 00:22:42.220
providing services,

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00:22:42.520 --> 00:22:47.440
working in consulting rooms or clinic rooms and looking at

333
00:22:48.010 --> 00:22:52.120
what patients need and advising accordingly.

334
00:22:52.210 --> 00:22:56.140
And if you have that approach, all the services funding,

335
00:22:56.140 --> 00:23:00.640
even the ones that are currently available, you can maximize those.

336
00:23:01.180 --> 00:23:05.350
So I think changing the mindset from being what I call,

337
00:23:06.310 --> 00:23:10.810
which a lot of people don't like the dispensing chemist role to a professional

338
00:23:10.810 --> 00:23:12.220
pharmacist practitioner.

339
00:23:13.420 --> 00:23:16.570
I think making that change becomes critically important.

340
00:23:19.930 --> 00:23:23.740
<v 1>You've also mentioned that a majority of pharmacies are managed by cost</v>

341
00:23:23.740 --> 00:23:27.550
minimization versus productivity. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?

342
00:23:28.510 --> 00:23:32.230
<v 2>Well, more or less explained the foundation of that,</v>

343
00:23:32.290 --> 00:23:37.090
and that is that pharmacy does very well through

344
00:23:37.870 --> 00:23:40.240
supply, through dispensing prescriptions.

345
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:47.450
A lot of the banner groups and certainly the majority of owners look at

346
00:23:47.450 --> 00:23:52.430
pharmacy as being a place where supply of

347
00:23:52.430 --> 00:23:56.240
prescriptions is maximized in the financial sense.

348
00:23:56.690 --> 00:24:00.410
And then there's a retail offer out the front, which is

349
00:24:02.210 --> 00:24:06.230
not often strategically created in a

350
00:24:07.280 --> 00:24:08.750
professional healthcare sense.

351
00:24:09.590 --> 00:24:14.120
I prefer to call that front of shop or retail area front of

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00:24:14.120 --> 00:24:17.540
practice, which has a totally different connotation.

353
00:24:18.560 --> 00:24:22.970
And there are some banner groups who see that and have made adjustments

354
00:24:23.600 --> 00:24:24.680
to their categories.

355
00:24:25.430 --> 00:24:30.410
So the traditional model historically and in many

356
00:24:30.410 --> 00:24:34.820
situations still is it's about maximize script throughput.

357
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:38.300
If I maximize script throughput, I maximize my income,

358
00:24:38.780 --> 00:24:41.330
more scripts I do more income I get obviously,

359
00:24:42.950 --> 00:24:46.040
and to improve the profit from that

360
00:24:47.180 --> 00:24:51.620
substitute as many generics as possible for originators.

361
00:24:52.190 --> 00:24:54.890
And that's become pretty standard these days anyway.

362
00:24:55.220 --> 00:24:58.070
People accept generics and majority of cases,

363
00:24:59.720 --> 00:25:04.340
and also to maximize supplier

364
00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:09.410
buying terms or deals because then that minimizes your net into store

365
00:25:09.410 --> 00:25:10.243
costs.

366
00:25:10.820 --> 00:25:14.810
And then to look at minimizing overheads.

367
00:25:14.810 --> 00:25:19.400
And the big target for minimizing overheads is wages,

368
00:25:19.970 --> 00:25:21.620
particularly pharmacist wages.

369
00:25:24.050 --> 00:25:28.550
And I think that approach has led to a number of

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00:25:28.550 --> 00:25:29.383
issues,

371
00:25:29.450 --> 00:25:34.220
which in my view has created the

372
00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:36.710
workforce issues that we're currently seeing.

373
00:25:36.830 --> 00:25:38.690
The difficulty of getting pharmacists.

374
00:25:39.290 --> 00:25:43.490
We know from the data that every year there's a record number of pharmacists

375
00:25:43.490 --> 00:25:46.430
going through the pharmacy, schools getting qualified,

376
00:25:47.270 --> 00:25:51.020
and yet it's so hard to find a pharmacist in community pharmacy,

377
00:25:51.020 --> 00:25:54.980
particularly when you go outside the big cities. It's really, really difficult.

378
00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.660
And I think part of that is the dispensing model,

379
00:25:59.690 --> 00:26:03.470
which is about maximizing script throughput and then

380
00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:08.870
minimizing cost and so on in order to manage the bottom line.

381
00:26:10.430 --> 00:26:12.170
Now, there's an alternative to that.

382
00:26:13.310 --> 00:26:16.700
The alternative is the productivity model, as you mentioned before.

383
00:26:17.390 --> 00:26:21.980
The productivity model is looking at the wages

384
00:26:23.690 --> 00:26:28.370
paid or salaries paid, not as a cost or an overhead,

385
00:26:28.370 --> 00:26:30.170
but looking at it as an investment.

386
00:26:31.610 --> 00:26:34.130
And like any investment you look at, well,

387
00:26:34.130 --> 00:26:37.760
what makes up that investment?
What am I investing in?

388
00:26:39.110 --> 00:26:43.680
Am I investing in activities that don't give me much of a return

389
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:49.770
or could I invest in a different mix of staff, for example? In other words,

390
00:26:49.770 --> 00:26:54.060
more pharmacists, more technicians, more nurse practitioners,

391
00:26:54.390 --> 00:26:56.130
more mental health counselors,

392
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:00.090
more wellness consultants and so on.

393
00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:03.660
What can I do with that investment?

394
00:27:03.660 --> 00:27:08.220
Can I reshape that same amount of money but in a different way?

395
00:27:09.000 --> 00:27:13.770
So the objective being what can these people do with the skills that they

396
00:27:13.770 --> 00:27:14.603
have?

397
00:27:15.330 --> 00:27:20.250
Can they attract more patients because of the skills and the additional services

398
00:27:20.250 --> 00:27:23.820
they can provide? And in doing so,

399
00:27:23.970 --> 00:27:28.890
can we therefore generate income by taking advantage

400
00:27:28.890 --> 00:27:33.540
of the current services in the eighth agreement that the guild negotiated,

401
00:27:33.540 --> 00:27:36.180
plus the new ones that are going to come through PSA.

402
00:27:37.050 --> 00:27:40.560
So the productivity model is driving the top line,

403
00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:43.410
not managing profit through trying to keep wages down.

404
00:27:44.310 --> 00:27:48.870
So obviously efficiency and processes and getting rid of waste,

405
00:27:48.870 --> 00:27:53.490
they're all important. Looking at different systems to speed things up,

406
00:27:53.520 --> 00:27:54.630
that's important,

407
00:27:56.190 --> 00:28:00.870
but it's about what people can produce and producing is about

408
00:28:01.380 --> 00:28:05.370
attracting patients and then what you can do for patients and then getting paid

409
00:28:05.370 --> 00:28:06.203
for it.

410
00:28:09.210 --> 00:28:10.800
<v 1>So that is all of my questions,</v>

411
00:28:10.800 --> 00:28:15.330
but I wanted to ask what I haven't asked you that you might want to share,

412
00:28:15.330 --> 00:28:18.330
even if you have any other forecasting models that we haven't heard of,

413
00:28:18.330 --> 00:28:20.070
but anything that I haven't asked you?

414
00:28:23.790 --> 00:28:26.730
<v 2>I don't think so. I think we've covered most of it,</v>

415
00:28:28.140 --> 00:28:32.820
but I think if you stand back and you look at the overall situation in

416
00:28:32.820 --> 00:28:36.480
Australia's healthcare system, we touched on this earlier on,

417
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.680
I think pharmacy has a very unique opportunity now,

418
00:28:40.680 --> 00:28:45.660
and many call it a once in a lifetime opportunity for pharmacy to come out

419
00:28:45.660 --> 00:28:50.370
of just being largely supply with some advice,

420
00:28:50.370 --> 00:28:50.760
of course,

421
00:28:50.760 --> 00:28:55.740
but largely supply to becoming health

422
00:28:55.800 --> 00:29:00.690
professionals operating in the broader health spectrum of Australia.

423
00:29:01.410 --> 00:29:05.820
And I think pharmacy can do this. We've got very well-trained,

424
00:29:05.820 --> 00:29:09.030
highly skilled pharmacists. I think a lot of them,

425
00:29:09.030 --> 00:29:13.290
and I talk to them in my capacity as an adjunct professor at the pharmacy

426
00:29:13.290 --> 00:29:17.430
school, QUT in Brisbane, they want to do more.

427
00:29:17.610 --> 00:29:21.570
They don't want to just sit behind a computer and bash out scripts for their

428
00:29:21.570 --> 00:29:22.020
career.

429
00:29:22.020 --> 00:29:26.490
And that's why a lot of them leave.
They want to do things to help patients.

430
00:29:26.490 --> 00:29:29.790
They've learned a lot of skills at university and they want to apply those.

431
00:29:29.790 --> 00:29:33.120
So they have skill sets, they have aspirations,

432
00:29:33.120 --> 00:29:36.660
they have things they want to do with their profession,

433
00:29:36.690 --> 00:29:38.340
and many of them get frustrated.

434
00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:43.900
So I think taking up the opportunity in this unique situation that pharmacy's in

435
00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:48.400
now where we can as the most accessible health

436
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:49.900
professional in Australia,

437
00:29:50.500 --> 00:29:53.650
start to take the running to take up the slack,

438
00:29:54.820 --> 00:29:58.810
which at the moment can't be, if you like,

439
00:29:58.810 --> 00:30:03.490
associated by hospital or general practice,

440
00:30:03.820 --> 00:30:07.630
huge opportunity, particularly in the primary care area and the services area.

441
00:30:11.830 --> 00:30:14.320
<v 1>Thank you. Thank you so much.</v>

442
00:30:15.500 --> 00:30:17.350
I think it's great to get the bigger picture,

443
00:30:17.860 --> 00:30:19.900
and I think the audience will get a lot from that.

444
00:30:22.010 --> 00:30:22.950
<v 2>How do you feel? That's good.</v>

445
00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:30.370
I'd like to think there's some messages in there. I think

446
00:30:32.260 --> 00:30:36.010
one of the things I'm seeing a little bit is a lot of negativity towards the

447
00:30:37.360 --> 00:30:41.380
agreement at the moment. There shouldn't be,

448
00:30:42.430 --> 00:30:43.930
I dunno why there is,

449
00:30:44.770 --> 00:30:48.460
I know there's a bit of a splinter group within the industry,

450
00:30:50.020 --> 00:30:55.000
but I think that whilst you can always argue

451
00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:56.710
for more, I think men,

452
00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:01.030
to look at what's been achieved for the industry and the profession

453
00:31:02.050 --> 00:31:04.690
in order to grasp that unique opportunity,

454
00:31:04.690 --> 00:31:07.780
which I think we are looking at at the moment over the next few years.

455
00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:12.370
So rather than complaining about the things that people would like to have,

456
00:31:12.370 --> 00:31:14.710
let's celebrate what we do have.

457
00:31:15.790 --> 00:31:20.470
So I think there should not be a case for,

458
00:31:21.220 --> 00:31:25.480
I guess an overly aggressive range of complaints

459
00:31:25.870 --> 00:31:27.700
against this set of agreements.

460
00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:35.350
<v 1>Thank you. I'm wondering what</v>

461
00:31:37.780 --> 00:31:41.350
the negativity towards the A agreements are because we don't know much yet and

462
00:31:41.350 --> 00:31:43.930
they just represent additional opportunities.

463
00:31:44.950 --> 00:31:46.090
<v 2>Look, I just think that</v>

464
00:31:47.710 --> 00:31:51.790
a lot of pharmacists seem to think that the government should keep paying more

465
00:31:51.790 --> 00:31:55.180
and more and more and more and more, but there's a limit.

466
00:31:55.540 --> 00:31:58.720
And in this agreement, there's an additional 3 billion.

467
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:02.080
You look outside the agreements,

468
00:32:02.260 --> 00:32:07.000
there's 1.4 odd billion of services which

469
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:08.350
pharmacy can provide,

470
00:32:09.160 --> 00:32:12.550
and these strategic agreements could lead to who knows what.

471
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:17.860
But it's all very positive. I think there's not a lot to complain about. I mean,

472
00:32:17.860 --> 00:32:21.640
the New Zealanders didn't get any compensation for 60 day dispensing.

473
00:32:23.170 --> 00:32:28.090
So I think we need to understand that pharmacy in Australia is

474
00:32:28.090 --> 00:32:30.730
in an extremely fortunate position,

475
00:32:32.140 --> 00:32:35.230
and the government needs pharmacy.

476
00:32:36.400 --> 00:32:37.300
They really do.

477
00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:42.320
And I think the Department of Health

478
00:32:42.890 --> 00:32:45.020
with the 60 day dispensing policy,

479
00:32:45.020 --> 00:32:47.540
which was dropped on the industry in April last year,

480
00:32:48.530 --> 00:32:53.060
whilst it shouldn't have come as a complete surprise because this has been

481
00:32:53.060 --> 00:32:54.230
coming since 2018,

482
00:32:55.220 --> 00:32:59.960
and the PBAC recommended extended dispensing to the then Minister for

483
00:32:59.960 --> 00:33:00.793
Health,

484
00:33:02.060 --> 00:33:05.390
it was badly framed.

485
00:33:05.720 --> 00:33:08.360
It was implemented very,

486
00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:10.910
very quickly without any thought for the impact.

487
00:33:11.030 --> 00:33:15.920
And nobody was consulted except maybe another

488
00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:17.960
healthcare group external to pharmacy.

489
00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:24.020
So I think that may have also assisted in this agreement,

490
00:33:24.020 --> 00:33:29.000
but I take my hat off to the negotiators from the PSA and from the Guild.

491
00:33:29.390 --> 00:33:30.860
I think they did a superb job,

492
00:33:31.700 --> 00:33:36.650
and I think it places pharmacy in an extraordinarily fabulous position that

493
00:33:36.650 --> 00:33:40.160
not many countries around the world can enjoy.

494
00:33:44.810 --> 00:33:48.880
<v 1>Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. That's a nice positive note.</v>

495
00:33:49.660 --> 00:33:54.290
<v 2>That's good. No, it's a great industry and it's a fabulous profession.</v>

496
00:33:55.340 --> 00:33:59.960
And I often say that to young pharmacists that when I meet them in a

497
00:33:59.960 --> 00:34:03.500
pharmacy or at a conference somewhere that this is a great profession.

498
00:34:03.740 --> 00:34:07.790
Don't listen to people who tell you it's a lousy business and not to go into it.

499
00:34:08.210 --> 00:34:13.070
It's a fantastic business because the difference that pharmacists can make

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to the health of people is incredible.

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<v 0>We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the AJP podcast.</v>

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If you have any thoughts, comments, or suggestions about this episode,

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please visit the AJP website forum@ajp.com.au and join the

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conversation.

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If you have any suggestions for future topics or would like to participate in

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the podcast, please follow us on Twitter at ajp podcast and send us a message.