0: Welcome to the AJP podcast,
A podcast for pharmacists by pharmacists where we discuss current events,
relevant topics, and emerging issues. I'm your host,
Carlene McMaugh, and together with the AJP,
I'm bringing you the opinions and expertise of different pharmacists to discuss
their views and insights on topics relevant to pharmacists.
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1: Hi, I'm Liza Seubert.
I'm the head of the pharmacy program here at UWA.
I have been a community pharmacist for probably 20 odd years.
I was a community pharmacist before moving into governance,
so then I moved in to work with registering pharmacists
and then after that I moved into academia.
And so I've been here for probably about 18 years
in academia and have been the head of the pharmacy program since
2017.
2: Hi, my name's Amy Page.
I'm a pharmacist at the University of Western Australia.
I'm the director for the Centre for Optimisation of Medicines within the
pharmacy department and I'm also the course director for our
new course, the Doctor of Pharmacy Practice.
I've got a background working in quite a few different settings across
pharmacy.
So I've worked in doing home medication reviews,
I've worked in general practise in community pharmacy and in hospital.
0: Thank you.
I wanted to start today by asking you what the education journey might look like
for a student now.
1: So the Doctor of Pharmacy Practice that we have recently
announced,
the UWA is an AQF nine
extended course.
Our Master of Pharmacy program is now called the Doctor of Pharmacy,
so our entry to practice degree is also called the Doctor of Pharmacy.
So we will be graduating students in this year with the
title Doctor of Pharmacy and they will start their intern year
with this doctor of pharmacy title, this qualification.
But what this doctor of pharmacy practise is for is to
allow the existing workforce,
so the people who are already out there practising pharmacy to gain the Doctor
of Pharmacy title.
0: Right. So
you've just mentioned who this is for.
Can you tell me how long the course is,
what pharmacists might expect if they were to sign up to do the course?
1: The course is a one year full-time equivalent. However,
the way that we've designed the course is very
flexible so that people don't actually have to make a commitment to a whole
one year course initially.
They can decide just to do some components of the course and we have a
number of components that can stack up into what we call the
doctor of Pharmacy practise.
And really it can take as long as you like
doing these different components of the course.
It is 48 credit points and so that would be
full-time if you were to study that over one year it would be full-time.
But if you want to commit to doing a short course initially,
for example in prescribing,
you can do the prescribing course which we've currently got in
for accreditation at the moment,
and that
you can just finish with the prescribing qualification or
in a couple of years time you might decide that you want to do the MMRA COP
component as well and then you can complete that component
and these gradually stack so that you eventually get the
full 48 credit point which will allow you to graduate with a
doctor of pharmacy.
2: So once you've done one of the microcredentials,
you've got up to five years to complete the rest of the
microcredentials to have it add up towards the doctor of
pharmacy practise. So in theory,
you could actually undertake all of the microcredentials first and if over a
period of five years and then enrol in the Doctor of Pharmacy practice having
already known that you've successfully completed all of the subjects that are
included in it.
Or you could enrol in the Doctor of Pharmacy practice directly and then
undertake the units the same way that you would normally with a degree.
0: So how many units would you have to do because you said that you can do some
parts or some components and then come back a couple of years later and do a
couple of other components.
So at what point is it called the Doctor of Pharmacy practice?
How many components do you need to do to get that title?
2: It is got eight fixed subjects that you have to have completed to be able to get
the Doctor of Pharmacy practice.
So once you've completed those eight subjects,
then you can apply for the Doctor of pharmacy practice.
0: Brilliant. You've mentioned a little bit about a couple of the topics,
but can you tell us a little bit more about what some of the topics are,
any additional skills that pharmacists might gather after the course?
2: There are three main components that go in the course.
One of them is the medication management reviews or MMR and the
aged care onsite pharmacists,
which we've got currently under accreditation with APC.
The second component is diabetes education,
which is similarly currently under accreditation with the Australian
Diabetes Educators Association.
And the third component is prescribing,
which is similarly under accreditation at the moment with APC
as well. So once you've got those three components,
then they're the subjects that add up to being the doctor of pharmacy
practice.
The diabetes education has a prerequisite subject
that people need to do. Once they've completed those,
they
will be able to start progressing towards becoming a credentialed diabetes
educator and even earning as that's a pathway for pharmacists to actually earn a
Medicare item number as well.
Pharmacists can also be able to work as in doing home
medication reviews or residential medication management reviews or in aged care
onsite roles after doing that subject credentialed
once it's accredited as well.
And then with prescribing that's into components.
So we've got an advanced clinical skills component which has
interpreting lab tests in it and also patient reported measures.
And then the second component is the component that will be accredited by
APC, which is the prescribing skills component.
0: Thank you. What would you like pharmacists to know about the course?
1: When we designed the course or the components of the course,
we had in mind that the people who would be
enrolling are working pharmacists and have busy lives
working as well as balancing family.
And then to actually come and enrol in a
university course,
it can be quite daunting and it can feel like it's an enormous
commitment.
But what we wanted to do was ensure that people who haven't been at university
for quite some time, well supported within the course,
the courses that the different components of the course
and that we have a very flexible model for
people to be able to balance their lives with the additional
study load. And also,
this is one of the reasons that we've designed it so that people can actually
take components one component at a time.
You don't have to make the full commitment initially.
And there will be some components that are intensive and
for example, face-to-face in the prescribing course there will be
intensive blocks where people have to be on site
and learn some skills.
But we've designed these again with working pharmacists in
mind. So we actually, we are going to deliver them,
for example,
the five days from a Wednesday to a Sunday so that you have a
Monday and a Tuesday where you can still be working in a pharmacy.
And these intensive days, for example,
with the prescribing course,
they will be lots of workshops every day where we have
some actors who come in and who are very experienced
for medical OS and they will be
the patients for the days.
And we also have GPs who will be supervising these days so that there is this
feedback that is provided to the learners and learners can
iteratively improve as they demonstrate these skills over the
week.
And we are not about making people feel like they
have to perform from day one.
It's gradually improving your skills over the week of that course and then
there'll be another week block later, for example with that.
So that's one of the things that we want to emphasise is that we know
that the course is for working professionals who have a busy life.
2: And in addition to that,
that feeds into how we've worked out the assessment models that we've
used.
So we know that a lot of the people who are going to come into the course are
people who haven't studied for a number of years,
so we're not wanting to test them on their ability to write an
essay or to reference because we know that a lot of the time when people go back
to uni after a number of years,
they spend just as much time trying to work out how to use the referencing
software as they do learning the content.
So we've designed all of our assessments to be authentic assessments.
So they're around how to deliver
a consultation or
how to write a report or how to do your documentation.
They're not around
how to do academic exercises.
0: Thank you.
What roles do you think pharmacists might be able to undertake after they've
completed the course?
1: So because the different components are really addressing these emerging
areas or areas of advanced skills that
these are the areas that people will be able to practise in.
So we have got the prescribing course,
so people will be able to then
engage in these prescribing activities. In WA for example,
we've got a trial which is starting next year.
And so we will have people ready to engage
in that.
And then the other one is the medicines management review and aged care
onsite pharmacists. So people will be able to work in those areas,
they'll have the skills for that.
And then the other area that we've talked about is the diabetes educator
area.
And so that will require still a little bit more practise
in order to become credentialed after you've completed the course components,
but that's an area that people will be able to move into as well.
0: Do you think that other organisations or universities are doing the course in a
similar way?
1: The doctor of pharmacy is an AQF level nine extended course,
and so it can only be delivered through a university.
It can't be delivered through other organisations,
so it will have to be university based and
each university really has the ability to design their
course the way that they would like to design it.
We're not aware of any other courses that are available,
but they very well maybe some that are in the pipeline.
The way that we have designed it is very specifically with
the audience in mind,
which is the working pharmacist that we know who want
to provide different services in their practise.
0: Thank you.
So what were some of the considerations or approvals required to have the course
approved?
2: I had start to explain just how many layers
of approvals there are that go into any new course at a university.
So this one was no different.
There are approvals
from having the curriculum aspects of it
rigorously assessed and approved through to the business case
and load planning.
There have been so many different layers of approvals that go into any
particular course including this one. And then on top of that,
because the different components of the course need to be accredited,
we've also had the accreditation applications go in separately for
the medication management reviews and aged care component,
the prescribing component and the diabetes component as well as
the clinical skills component in for WA health as well.
So it's been an awful lot of paperwork with the approvals.
0: So I was going to ask,
there is I guess recognition of prior courses.
So do pharmacists have to do the full course if they've already completed some
of the subjects or qualification such as the medication review?
2: So pharmacists can get recognition of prior learning for up to half of the
course,
the other half of the course they must complete to be able to
be awarded the qualification.
So there will be courses that we will recognise for recognition of
prior learning.
So if somebody has already done a graduate certificate in diabetes
management and education that's accredited by the A DEA,
then they will get 12 credit points of recognition for that
for the diabetes education component.
If they've completed the QUT or James Cook prescribing
program,
then they'll get 12 credit points of recognition of prior learning for that
course as well.
Or if they've completed an a PC accredited course
in medication management reviews or in aged care onsite pharmacy,
then they'll get recognition for that too.
0: Is the course run online or as workshops? What can pharmacists expect?
1: So
the majority of it is run online or the different courses
because there are lots of different components and
the majority of it is asynchronous online and so people are able to do it at a
time that suits them.
But there are some components that will be required to be face-to-face
depending on what it is that you are doing specifically at that time.
And
also there will be some tutorials that will be synchronous as well
for the different courses.
So you will need to join in online with some tutorials,
but we'll have a number of different time slots and days that you can choose
from there.
So it is quite flexible with the way that it
is delivered,
but with any of these types of services and skills
that we are developing,
it is essential to have some face-to-face practical
skills development as well. So there will be components of that.
Yes. So Amy, did you want to talk about the virtual placements?
2: I can.
So one of the things that I'm really excited about that we've been able to do is
that we've been collaborating with a film company called the Media
Collective. And in conjunction with the Media Collective,
we've been able to film some virtual placements as well with people.
So in collaboration with IRT Aged Care,
we've done filmed a virtual placement in aged care
facilities.
So really showing people what an aged care facility looks like and what the day
would look like of an aged care onsite pharmacist from when they first arrive at
the facility through to activities that they'd do during the day,
including medication advisory committee meetings and collaborating with other
health professionals such as the physiotherapist or the GP
and the registered nurses and care staff that are involved in that
setting. And then similarly,
we've done another virtual placement in a general practise,
so working with King Street Medical as well For that
one,
we've spent the time filming there to show pharmacists
what happens in a GP practice day to day because a lot of us have,
we always interact with GPS during our
practise,
but we don't actually generally know what happens day to day behind the
scenes in a GP practise. So it's showing somebody what's happening there and
what role a pharmacist would be able to play in the GP practise and also
understanding where referrals are coming from or your prescriptions are coming
from when you are working with GPS through other settings as well
will similarly use the same sort of model with diabetes education where we've
had
credentialed diabetes educators recording consultations with people
living with diabetes so that you're actually seeing a really big
variety of different consultations with people with diabetes and
credentialed diabetes educators from a range of background,
including a registered nurse and an optometrist and an exercise physiologist
and as well as a pharmacist so that you get that genuine interprofessional
aspect of it.
0: So you've mentioned about the virtual work placements,
do pharmacists have to do other physical face-to-face placements as well?
1: So this is something that we're working through at the moment. So yes,
there will be some
physical actual placement face-to-face placements as well, but
our courses are in for accreditation at the moment, so we,
we'll see how that pans out.
0: Brilliant. So I might ask you,
how does this course compare to other courses in the market?
2: One of the things I'm really proud about with the course is how
interprofessional the course is.
So with the diabetes education component,
for example,
we've actually had people from 12 different health professional backgrounds
contributing to writing the course.
So a lot of courses talk about being interdisciplinary or having
interprofessional aspects,
but I feel like the diabetes education course is one where it is
actually truly an interprofessional course.
Having had people from so many different backgrounds contributing
to the course and building it together,
there's not really one profession that's dominated in there at all
either.
So it's this nice blend of all of the different professions and really building
on that. And similarly,
a lot of those same people have helped build the credential Diabetes
educator course of all also helped build the Medication
Management review and aged care course, for example.
So in our medication management review and aged care course,
it's being written not only by pharmacists, but it's been written by GPs,
dietitian, podiatrist, registered nurses, physiotherapists,
exercise physiologist, and podiatrists as well.
We've had an Aboriginal woman helping write all of the courses as well.
So we've got a beautiful input from
her as well,
really helping understand how to deliver culturally appropriate
healthcare for people.
And we are using that same model again for the prescribing
components as well. So I'm very,
very proud of how genuinely interprofessional the courses are and I
feel like help writing the courses,
all of us who've been contributing have been saying how much we've all learned
because of how interprofessional it is.
So I really hope that our students will see that same sort of
passion coming through and that collaboration that we've had between all of the
different professions.
0: So can you please tell me about the current demand or interest in the course?
1: So last week the course was approved through the university
processes and we made a couple of
media releases and Amy and I are quite astonished with the
number of people who are contacting us saying that they're very interested in
the course.
So there is a lot of interest out there
from community pharmacists and other pharmacists as well.
So not just community pharmacists who are wanting to upskill and get
this doctor or pharmacy qualification.
We've been quite surprised. We Amy.
2: It's been really, really good to see that
what we thought was going to be the qualification that would be of a lot of
interest to people is something that people really seem to be wanting to
do. The main question I think we've been getting is when can I enrol?
Can I enrol now? When do enrollment's open?
So the answer is that enrollments will be opening later this year
for a 2026 start.
0: So what I might ask you,
is there anything that you would like to share that I haven't asked you?
1: There's one thing that I would like to say is that we are calling this the
Doctor of Pharmacy practice and that is to differentiate it from other
Doctor of Pharmacy programs such as the entry to practise program.
However,
the award title that people will come out with is the
Doctor of Pharmacy and you will be able to use the
postals dpharm after you've completed this course
and also the honorific doctor title as well.
So that is,
so while it's called the Doctor of Pharmacy practise that when you get your
certificate at the end of the day it will say Doctor of Pharmacy,
and that's just for us to know who's who.
When we've got a whole lot of students.
2: Which is also actually probably important for some of our students who
are pharmacists practising in hospital settings in
Victoria and WA in particular,
and maybe some of the other states where the EBA actually allows for a higher
qualification allowance for people who've completed a
master's degree.
So as this is an extended level AQF level nine,
it is still a master's degree,
so it will count towards that higher qualification allowance
for those people if they've got the doctor of pharmacy practise.
Whereas the entry to practise Doctor of Pharmacy does not allow for that
additional payment.
1: Sorry, please continue.
The other thing that I wanted to add was that we have got these three
quite distinct areas that are relatively new areas for
pharmacists practise included in our course at the moment.
But as we progress over the next couple of years,
we will be adding other areas into the course.
So this is not the be all and end all.
We will be adding other areas as they are developed and are
appropriate for different provision of different pharmacy services.
0: Can pharmacists sign up to it now?
1: At the moment,
you can send either Amy or myself an email to be put onto the
list for any information that comes out about the course,
it will be open for enrollment for 2026.
Thank you.
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